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A LUNCHTIME CHAT WITH VAN JOHNSON
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Van Johnson, who died earlier this month at age 92, was one of MGM's great stars of the 1940s. Jim Bawden interviewed him in 1987 for The Toronto Star. In memory of Johnson, Bawden revisits that interview for our readers. |
of TheColumnists.com
When Van Johnson walked into the hotel restaurant, heads turned. It was the summer of 1987 and he was a splendidly preserved 72-year old, wearing full pancake makeup.
The one-time big MGM movie star was in Toronto to film an episode of the "Alfred Hitchcock Presents" TV series, a revival of the original series, and I was joining him for lunch to do an interview for my newspaper, The Toronto Star.
He sat down, smiled and then quickly said,
“I never met Rock Hudson” –a seemingly strange
reference to the 1985 death of the Hollywood star but also an
admonition to stay away from asking certain questions. Here’s
how the interview went:
BAWDEN: Do you remember what it was like, your first day at MGM?
VAN JOHNSON: Well, I came out to the coast to do "Too Many
Girls" (1940) and wound up with only a few lines. RKO dropped
me and I went back to Broadway for "Pal Joey" and on
one of the few nights that Gene Kelly was sick I stood in for
him, Jack Warner was in the audience and he signed me. My only
Warners picture was "Murder in the Big House (1942) with
Faye Emerson and it was a ripe stinker. Jack fired me and Lucy
Ball, who I met on "Too Many Girls" tipped MGM scout
Billy Grady I was available. I tested and started a year contract
at $75 a week. When I got big at MGM Jack re-released "Murder"
and it finally made back its costs.
BAWDEN: You were lucky many of MGM’s biggest male stars
were fighting in the war.
JOHNSON: Of course I knew that. MGM always had batallions of
replacements waiting in the wings in case a star got too uppity.
James Craig looked just like a young Clark Gable, so he got a
lot of work. John Carroll just went from picture to picture and
so did John Hodiak. I was part of a group of "boys next
door" and this included Tom Drake, Marshall Thompson and
Robert Walker. As a matter of fact I was signed by Vincente Minnelli,
who saw me on the back lot, for "Meet Me In St. Louis."
But there was a scheduling clash and Tom Drake took over. Bobby
Walker and I were both in "Madame Curie" so Mr. Mayer
could look us over.
BAWDEN: But you were the soldier next door, you made so many
war pictures.
JOHNSON: All from the safety of the back lot. Because of my injury
I was passed over for real duty, I had a silver plate in my head
by then. MGM had a room filled with service uniforms all for
me. I did "Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo," "A Guy
Named Joe," "High Barbaree,""Battleground,"
so on and so forth. I always seemed to be in uniform.
BAWDEN: One story about you from those days said you liked MGM
so much you never wanted to go home.
JOHNSON: When (silent screen star) Colleen Moore visited the
lot I just had to see her. She was a favorite when I was watching
silent pictures as a kid. At MGM I’d have a haircut in the
MGM barber shop, research my next role at the MGM library. It
was a walled city with everything right there. When I got a star
dressing room with the other male players I vowed never to relinquish
it. I felt right at home. But I never ate in the MGM commissary.
I brown-bagged it so I’d sit in my dressing room and go
over the lines for the next scene.
BAWDEN: Your first big picture was going to be "A Guy Named
Joe" (1943) but you almost got replaced after a freak accident.
JOHNSON: I was blindsided by a swerving car–the driver was
drunk--and lay there while two sets of ambulances argued over
the jurisdiction. Had to have a silver plate put in my head,
which ruined me for army service. When I came back MGM insisted
I do a bit in "Madame Curie" (1943). I knew what that
was about. They wanted to see if my scar would show on screen.
Spence Tracy had refused to go back to work on "Joe"
without me, so I owe a lot to him. Just to confuse things they
had also started up"The White Cliffs Of Dover" (1944),
so I was making two films at the same time and so was Irene Dunne.
I had a very small part in "Dover" and I also did "Three
Men in White" (1944) and "Between Two Women" (1944)–two
"Dr. Gillespie" programmers--before the decision was
made to try me out as a feature star as opposed to a promising
newcomer.
BAWDEN: You made only one movie with Clark Gable, "Command
Decision" (1947).
JOHNSON: No, I had a bit in "Somewhere I’ll Find You."
Later, I was Lana Turner’s leading man in "Weekend
At the Waldorf." On "Command Decision" (1947),
Gable wasn’t the same after he came back from the war. He’d
do a scene and stroll out the door and hide out in his dressing
room. Perfectly nice guy. No star temperament. At 5:30 he left
the set no matter what. Sam Wood was our crusty director and
he kept things humming along. The cast was as big as a telephone
directory: Walter Pidgeon, John Hodiak, Brian Donlevy, Charlie
Bickford. No women at all. On Broadway it was a hit but the decision
was made not to show the actual aerial attack. I just think the
audience felt cheated but Sam ordered the cameras to remain inside
the bunker for claustrophobic effect. But audiences just wanted
the action. The only shots of the planes are in the opening credits.
What followed seemed anticlimactic to a lot of people.|
BAWDEN: You became expert at the care and feeding of a big group
of female stars.
JOHNSON: I only worked with Ava Gardner in one of those "Dr.
Gillespie" B movies. Oh, she was in "A Guy Named Joe,"
but it was a walk on. I was 18 years younger than Irene Dunne
but audiences accepted that. But there was nothing with (Greer)
Garson after "Madame Curie." Here’s something
for you: MGM in 1943 wanted me to report for the next Greta Garbo
picture, which was going to be a remake of "Flesh and the
Devil" and I’d be her much younger lover. She looked
at the script and said “I tank I go home now” and she
never came back to acting.
 obvious distaste. AT RIGHT: Johnson holds his own in a dance number with Gene Kelly in "Brigadoon." |
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BAWDEN: You were frequently teamed with June Allyson and Esther Williams.
JOHNSON: With Esther Williams it was time for the tank. I was an OK swimmer but days in that water and I felt like a prune. But who is kidding who–nobody was looking at me anyway. The titles were similar: "Easy To Wed," "Easy To Love." Women loved that stuff. Esther had more female fans than male. MGM had a policy of encouraging teams, "Easy To Wed" was a remake of an old Bill-Powell-Myrna Loy film, "Libeled Lady." But I was more of a team with June Allyson. We started with"Two Girls and A Sailor" (1944) and Mr. Mayer said he was testing both June and Gloria De Haven. He wanted to see which one audiences preferred. Gloria was prettier and had a better voice but females preferred June’s spunkiness, so he promoted her and let Gloria drift away.
June was my soul mate, she was married to Dick Powell, but she confided everything to me. They tried me, too, with Janet Leigh: "The Romance Of Rosy Ridge," "Confidentially Connie." I did two very bad movies with Liz Taylor, "The Big Hangover" and "The Last Time I Saw Paris." The idea was to keep making these programmers. MGM didn’t make B films, but these were programmers with pretensions.
BAWDEN: Wasn’t "Romance Of Rosy Ridge" Leigh’s first picture.
JOHNSON:: She had never acted anywhere except in screen tests. Norma Shearer saw her photograph on her father’s desk–he managed ski resorts. But just to be on the safe side they had an accomplished actress standing by if Janet failed, that would have been Beverly Tyler. Janet was so inexperienced we were off on location and I caught her washing out her own clothes at night in preparation for next morning’s scene. I gently old her they had (wardrobe) people for that. She was completely natural, so winning. MGM felt they had a real big star in the making and they were right. Five years later that whole studio set up started collapsing. I watched it crumble from within.
BAWDEN: Is it true you watched Gable leave the studio?
JOHNSON: They had given him notice. He was considered too expensive at $6,000 a week. I was in the Thalberg building with the little girl (Sandy Descher) from "The Last Time I Saw Paris" (1954) and we watched from an upstairs window as Gable drove his convertible right around that loop. Then he stood up and saluted and drove away and with him went the studio’s glory. Of course, they’d already fired the old man, Mr. (Louis B.) Mayer. What was left was Metro-Goldwyn-Schary and that wasn’t much of anything.
BAWDEN: Margaret Hamilton once told me you suffered a crisis of confidence on the set of "State Of the Union" (1948).
JOHNSON: She told you that? Well, it’s absolutely true. I was going around saying “What am I doing in a movie with Kate Hepburn, Spencer Tracy, Lewis Stone… I felt I was out of my depth. One day I was saying all this and more to Frank Capra, our director, and he bellowed “Van you are here because I specifically asked for you. I’ve just been watching the dailies with Kate and she is complaining you stole that last scene from her with a bit of underacting. Do you understand what I’m saying?” What he was saying was continue being Van Johnson and stop mouthing off about it.
BAWDEN: Why did MGM pictures turn so rancid in the 1950s.
JOHNSON: They started lending me out, so I knew trouble was brewing. I didn’t mind being with Loretta Young in "Mother Was A Freshman" (1949) although we couldn’t swear in front of Loretta. Back at MGM we had conferences about the slide. The actors were told we were getting too old. And this was kind of true. My fans were now married and living in their new suburban homes. Why should they come into the increasingly scary downtowns to watch me trying to play a young kid when I was nearing 40. In "Remains To Be Seen" (1953), my last with June. I was 37 and she was 38 and we’re so very cute it was sickening.
BAWDEN: But you still made good pictures occasionally. "Battleground" (1949) is a terrific war movie.
JOHNSON: For 10 days we were marched in batallion formation all over the Metro backlot. The director was Wild Bill Wellman and he said he wanted to make a war picture that looked completely real. Bob Pirosh, the writer, had served and said everything he put in the script he’d seen in action. We ate the grub of soldiers, we were forbidden to take baths or use make up. It got too much for Bob Taylor and he stormed off in disgust to be replaced by Johnny Hodiak. The Ardennes footage looked completely authentic but it was shot out at the Metro ranch and on the back lot. Mr. Mayer hated it but it got six Oscar nominations and the rift between Mayer and Schary was out in the open.
BAWDEN: I also like "The Caine Mutiny."
JOHNSON: I sat for weeks in that courtroom and watched the back of Humphrey Bogart’s head and he was magnificent. Tracy could not have done that part because he wanted to be loved by audiences. (Director) Eddie Dmytryk delivered a cut that was an hour longer than the released film. When I saw it the running time was slightly over three hours and it was terrific. Harry Cohen (studio boss at Columbia Pictures) ordered it cut to the bone so theatres could have an extra play a day. The longer version was amazing, the one you’ve seen pretty good but not great. They say the director’s cut no longer exists which is a real shame. Back at Metro I did "Brigadoon" (1954) and the dancing was great, the songs magnificent, but to save dollars they shot it inside a soundstage with painted backdrops and audiences stayed away. They were seeing better stuff on live TV and it was free.
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some of his best reviews ever in "TheCaine Mutiny," shown here at left with Robert Francis and Fred MacMurray |
BAWDEN: You're fine in "Brigadoon" but your pictures were becoming routine.
JOHNSON: They shot all of "The Last Time I Saw Paris" (1954) on the back lot and it looked it. They couldn’t get away with that anymore and I was lousy. I was also lousy in "The End Of The Affair" (1955) –so much was cut to appease the censor. Then I was back at Metro making "Slander"(1956) and next door Elvis Presley was shooting "Jail House Rock." Nobody was visiting us but there were crowds next door. So I walked over and watched and I could see Elvis mouthing to an assistant, “Is that Van Johnson?” So I waved and he waved and I walked back to my lonely set and I just knew the gig was over.
BAWDEN: You almost did the TV series "The Untouchables."
JOHNSON: My wife Evie said I had to ask for two payments because the pilot was going to be two hours extended over two time slots on "Desilu Playhouse." So she phones Desi (Arnaz) the night before filming starts and he hollers and gets Bob Stack. And I did "The Music Man" on the London stage instead. Years later at an L.A. party, Bob comes up and asks me if I ever regretted turning down "The Untouchables."And I say, “Bob, I got to sing "76 Trombones" (in "The Music Man") for an entire year, so the answer is no.”
BAWDEN: In the 1960s they say you invented dinner theater.
JOHNSON: My fans now sported blue hair. So I’d go out every season in an old play –preferably with music--and we’d cut it down to 90 minutes, give them a big meal with wine, and they had a night of it. The dinner would be at 6 and at 7:30 the play would begin because they couldn’t be up that late anymore considering their ages. And I’d answer questions about my career and we’d all be home and in bed by 11. And pretty soon all the older stars were at it. Gene Kelly even watched me from behind the curtains for a week before he went out on his first dinner circuit tour. I always wear my red socks and the theatre is usually filled. Then I started doing Italian crime flicks. I’d say my lines in Italian but I met the guy who dubbed me and I gave him pointers. After I finish this TV job with Rory Calhoun I’ll be going to New Zealand with Kathryn Grayson. The object is to keep going just as long as I can.
©2008 by Jim Bawden. This column first posted Dec. 22, 2008.
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